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How can a valid covenant be made with an eight day old child?

  

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Rabbi Shlomo Chein: Welcome. I'll be with you in a moment...what's on your mind?

Albie: Do all jewish boys get circumcised?

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: It is the will of G-d that all Jewish boys get circumcised

Albie: What if one doesn't want to be?

Albie: Is he forced? Looked down upon?

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: That is his choice. A person has free will, and they can chose to obey or disobey G-d's will

Albie: Ah.

Albie: Why are we circumcised?

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: because that creates a covenant between us and G-d (it has absolutley nothing to do with health reasons)

Albie: what is a covenant... please go into further detail

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: "formal, solemn, and binding agreement" - the dictionary

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: we have an eternal agreement and relationship with G-d. Every child that is born enters and seals that agreement through circumcision

Albie: Do we ever get circumcised at birth?

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: 8 days old

Albie: How can that be?

Albie: A contract is a formed agreement between two people.

Albie: How can a child a mere 8 days old be conscious to form a contract with god?

Albie: Hello?

Albie: Sorry if i'm being rude... I'm just so lost.

Albie: My parents are jewish and i'm not sure if i fully understand my faith

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: that is a very good question - you are not being rude

Albie: You'll agree with me that which you have faith in must be understood, correct?

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: absolutley (to some extent of course)

Albie: Yes.

Albie: Can you answer this question for me?

Albie: Shall i seek other resources?

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: i can try :-)

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: there are many people on right now, so try to be patient :-)

Albie: sorry

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: ok - your question is discussed in many Jewish writings and answered in most of them. My favorite answer is that the covenant with G-d is on G-d's terms - infinite, divine, and eternal. Truth be said that when you reach levels such as those, a child and Einstein are on the same level - they are both human, and therefore niether can really comprehend G-d or His terms....

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: Therefore we have this covenant made with a child at 8 days, that he, or anyone else, should never think this is man made covenant based on and limited to human understanding and terms. This is a Divine covenanant, based on G-dly knowledge and terms and therefore infinite and eternal

Albie: How can somone sign a contract, being divine or man made, without understanding the terms.

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: 1) Do you know how many people sign contracts without knowing the terms! I am sure you yourself at one time or another signed a rental car contract or something of the sort without reading all the terms :-)

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: but that is just a side point - nothing really to do with our issue

Albie: The last part would be true, because rental car contract don't involve surgically removing part of a young boys penis before he can crawl.

Albie: for this i do not understand

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: :-)

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: yes, for that reason, and many others

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: the point here is what type of covenant we are entering. We are entering a covenant that is beyond (any) human understanding. Therefore there is nothing the human has to do, or could do, to make this covenant stronger or weaker. A G-d instructed procedure has to be performed on the human, and that intiates this covenant based on G-d's terms. Therefore it really makes no difference if one does or doesn't know what is going on - this true for an infant, or for an adult who doesn't know how this procedure will strengthen his relationship with G-d

Albie: makes sense

Albie: thanks

All names, places, and identifying information have been changed or deleted in order to protect the privacy of the questioners. In order to preserve authenticity, the chat sessions have been posted with a minimum of editing. Please excuse typographical errors, missing punctuation, and/or grammatical mistakes which naturally occur in the course of informal chat sessions.

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Life Cycle » Circumcision » The Brit

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