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What's wrong with abortion?

  

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Rabbi Shlomo Chein: Welcome. I'll be with you in a moment...what's on your mind?

Libby: shalom Rav I have an important question to ask you that I know is a difficult one...but is bothering me

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: ok

Libby: I am a law school student studying here in the US and have studied a lot about abortions in Constitutional law

Libby: for years I have been personally against abortions...i mean totally, and for a good reason.

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: ok

Libby: In fact, now that I have studied how abortions are performed, I am even more against it. However, i have one problem...

Libby: It is a known fact that the fetus doesn't start forming until the 9th week, why wouldn't abortion be allowed until then?

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: good question, here are two answers:

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: 1) when you say it is a "known fact" you obviously mean that as of scientific advancement of today it is a "known fact" - technically speaking in ten years from now it could be laughed upon

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: 2) even if that is the fact; the moment the sperm hits the egg (and even before) there is "life" involved - for if there isn't then the egg and sperm die

Libby: but today, the woman could see her baby on a tv screen developing...it is clear that there is nothing there so early on

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: are you saying that in regard to 1 or 2?

Libby: 1

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: true she can see, but absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence - just because she can't see anything before that, that doesn't mean there is nothing going on before that

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: as a matter of fact it is quite obvious that something IS going on before that - for from sperm/egg to nine week fetus doesn't happen "overnight" - it happens over nine weeks

Libby: oh i know that the baby is forming, but it has not taken shape yet. Let me explain

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: so if there is something forming that is a sign of life - for dead things don't form

Libby: there is an economic that frames the argument in this way: The longer the woman waits, the more likely the baby is too survive and the greater the opportunity cost of aborting it

Libby: however at 2 weeks...no physical form is shaped yet...or even began to take shape

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: again, 1) we don't yet have the technology to monitor any forming, and 2) even if indeed there is no physical forming, that doesn't mean there is no life there

Libby: there is a life there...but let me ask you a related question

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: ok

Libby: abortion is such a serious issue not only because of the potential life, but also because of the accompaning policy concerns

Libby: for example...a woman could be raped and doesn't want to have the child of her rapist. I read many cases like that in class!

Rabbi Shlomo Chein: Are you talking about in the legal sense or in light of Judaism

All names, places, and identifying information have been changed or deleted in order to protect the privacy of the questioners. In order to preserve authenticity, the chat sessions have been posted with a minimum of editing. Please excuse typographical errors, missing punctuation, and/or grammatical mistakes which naturally occur in the course of informal chat sessions.

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COMMENTS

Abortion

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 19, 2005

In Parsha Mishpatim it states : If men shall fight and they collide with a pregnant woman and she miscarries, but there shall be no fatality, he shall surely be punished as the husband of the woman shall cause to be assessed against him.

To me that sounds as if Torah is not considering the fetus to be a 'life' yet. Otherwise wouldn't there have been a fatality when she miscarried?

Editor's Comment

As Rabbi Chein indicated, the fact that the fetus is "alive" is indisputable. However, the torah certainly does not equate abortion with murder -- abortion is not a capital offense for a Jew -- for though it is wrong, a fetus is not considered to be a full-fledged human being.

It's just a cluster of cells until....

Posted by: Anonymous on Feb 06, 2006

From conception, the cells start developing. Around 25 days after conception the developing heart starts beating - I would say that indicates the first form of it being a life, despite it still not being classed as a fetus & needing to rely on another 8 months of incubation.

In all fairness, it's nearly impossible to tell within 2 weeks of conception if you're pregnant. There is also the issue that a termination usually cannot be arranged and done in a day.

I guess the question is, do you allow the re-building of 1 life or do you bring another life into this world leaving at least 1 person with little quality of life? The answer depends solely on individual cases and is impossible to 'generalise'.

abortion

Posted by: Anonymous on Mar 01, 2006

i wonder if rabbi chein discussed this issue with any halachic advisors before making the blanket statement that abortion is forbiden in any circumstances. being that many poskim hold that abortion is not akin to murder and in extreme cases like rape would be permitted, such as the tzitz eliezer. despite what his personal opinion might be it is a litte irresponsible to answer unequivically regarding such a complicated and highly disuputed issue

Editor's Comment

Rabbi Chein responds: This chat was a theoretical academic discussion evaluating the value of life, when and HOW it begins. This conversation was NOT a Halachic ruling in any form. As a matter of fact Askmoses.com does not substitute a Rav and when a specific Halachic question is asked our scholars refer people to a qualified Rov.

When the Askmoses editors decided to post this chat in our database they specifically added a note saying that this is just general perspective and should not be taken as a ruling for actual and personal cases. So you are absolutely correct, abortion is not the same as murdering a born-already human, and in certain cases abortion is permitted.


"Just cells" and other attempts at trivialization

Posted by: Edward Prather, Reisterstown, MD on Mar 15, 2007

The idea that after conception the result is 'just cells' is at best ignorant and at worst purposefully misleading.

As the wise rabbi states, science in ten years may mock at our inability to view what we have before us today. But even the science of today knows better, if you bother to actually explore it.

Dictionary.com defines life as , "... being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally."

Those cells grow, they definately take in nutrients and expel waste (all living cells do, thus they metabolise), one cell splits into two, two to four, etc., thus there is reproduction and replacement of dying cells, and those cells definately change internally as they specialize and become the organs.

They are human as any DNA test can reveal, and are not the same as mother of father, thus they are their own, new HUMAN being. And is it moral to willfully terminate the life of a human?


RELATED CATEGORIES

Women & Judaism » Women's Issues
Life Cycle » Birth » Reproductive Issues

Torah
Torah is G–d’s teaching to man. In general terms, we refer to the Five Books of Moses as “The Torah.” But in truth, all Jewish beliefs and laws are part of the Torah.
G-d
It is forbidden to erase or deface the name of G-d. It is therefore customary to insert a dash in middle of G-d's name, allowing us to erase or discard the paper it is written on if necessary.