In_a_Pickle: i am invited to a non-jewish wedding as a best man of a groom with whom i have friendship for over 15 years and now business partnership. at first they were talking about a non-denominational wedding with judge of peace while yesterday his bride announced that she wants the wedding ceremony to take place in catholic church before a reception - what should i do

In_a_Pickle: the groom has attended every major ceremony of mine so far, and i've priorly agreed to be his best man in the non-denominational ceremony, and he sees no difference why i cannot do it now and he's taken it personally

Mrs. Shaffer: ok

Mrs. Shaffer: the difference is in the venue

Mrs. Shaffer: when it was meant to be a non-denominational ceremony, there is no religious issue

Mrs. Shaffer: but the fact that it's taking place in a place of worship...that then poses a whole new issue for you...the requirement that you be a part of a religious ceremony in a venue that is religious

Mrs. Shaffer: obviously the religious nature of their ceremony is their prerogative, but as a Jew you have your own religious standards to live up to

In_a_Pickle: but he personally does not see it the way i do

Mrs. Shaffer: it's not about how you 'see' it...it's about the law

Mrs. Shaffer: this is what Jewish law states....it's not your own opinion or philosophy

Mrs. Shaffer: it's an objective reality

In_a_Pickle: he does not care even if it will be in a Shul, and wants to make his bride happy and she never mentioned anthing about catholic wedding before some of her relatives from overseas decided to attend it

Mrs. Shaffer: and he expects you to violate your religious principles in order to make his bride hapy?

In_a_Pickle: no, he is mad at me

In_a_Pickle: and he will walk away from business

In_a_Pickle: he said that he had no problems going to my huppa

Mrs. Shaffer: that's fine...he had no problem with it... his religion allows it

Mrs. Shaffer: but you do have a problem with being in a church... your religion doesn't allow it

Mrs. Shaffer: the fact is, he's asking you, on a whim, to violate a basic relilgious principle

In_a_Pickle: he is non religious therefore he has no real respect to any

Mrs. Shaffer: has he any respect for you?

In_a_Pickle: he does respect me

Mrs. Shaffer: if he respects you, then he must respect your principles!

In_a_Pickle: he just wants peace in a family

Mrs. Shaffer: look....you say he just wants peace in the family

In_a_Pickle: right

Mrs. Shaffer: what if he asks you to eat non-Kosher food...becasue his bride's sister cooked a great ham meal....and it would make her happy....would he expect you to eat treif?

Mrs. Shaffer: what if he asked you to just be nice to his sister-in-law and spend the night with her...would he expect that too?

In_a_Pickle: i know my obligations and as a matter of fact they have ordered glat for us

Mrs. Shaffer: wonderful

Mrs. Shaffer: it seems that what he agrees with, if it doesn't in any way hinder his wedding arrangements, he's ok with...but if your religion gets in the way of his wedding plans...then he wants you to change your religion...:)

In_a_Pickle: yet - i also deal with investors here - as i've mentioned he is also my business partner. his family invested in our business a lot, and they dont care neither where the wedding takes place

Mrs. Shaffer: look...you're faced with a real moral choice

Mrs. Shaffer: and you'll either prove yourself a man of principles...or you'll prove that principles don't matter where business is concerned....:)

Mrs. Shaffer: you seem to be very clear about the principles invovled....and the laws about what you may or may not do

Mrs. Shaffer: but clearly, the fact that there is business involved creates a dynamic that is not so easy for you

Mrs. Shaffer: bear in mind there are many ways you can show your happiness and support for his happiness when he gets married

In_a_Pickle: i am asking how to avoid war

Mrs. Shaffer: there are two ways to avoid war:

Mrs. Shaffer: or, two: you simply bend to any wind that may seem to carry business with it

Mrs. Shaffer: in which case, you are a man with one principle only...money

Mrs. Shaffer: so, it's your choice :)

Mrs. Shaffer: who are you? what kind of man are you? :)

In_a_Pickle: who am i that has never been doubted

In_a_Pickle: how smart am i - that is a question

In_a_Pickle: i am man - with little children who must be provided with very expensive jewish education to begin with

In_a_Pickle: and to provide such - i work a lot

Mrs. Shaffer: right

Mrs. Shaffer: but you would not violate Shabbat for your job, would you?

Mrs. Shaffer: or eat non-kosher?

Mrs. Shaffer: or get invovled in an extra-marital relationship....

Mrs. Shaffer: there are things you would not do to provide this very expensive Jewish education :)

Mrs. Shaffer: this is something you have to make clear to your friend

In_a_Pickle: to start war between investors for me might cause that i wont be able to afford eat kosher

Mrs. Shaffer: that's a myth

Mrs. Shaffer: not everyone's rich...but no one is eating non-kosher for financial reasons....this is something we've seen time and again in Jewish history...but that's a whole other discussion :)

In_a_Pickle: the issue is that there is also a prohibition against starting wars

Mrs. Shaffer: this is not a war that you're talking about...no one's going to nuke anyone else....:)

Mrs. Shaffer: you're talking about business

In_a_Pickle: yes we are talking about business that i've personally built over 15 years coming to this country alone with zero in a pocket and the very same business that supports over 35 family now

Mrs. Shaffer: I understand.... so it's not an easy choice for you

In_a_Pickle: this guy was working with me from the day 1

Mrs. Shaffer: but you do stand at a moral crossroads...and it's your decision and your choice and your challenge to take the moral high ground....

Mrs. Shaffer: frankly...I must say...that if he's that close to you, I'd expect a bit more respect....but that's about him, not you :)

Mrs. Shaffer: you have to make a choice.....

Mrs. Shaffer: ask yourself how you'll feel about your decision in ten years from now

Mrs. Shaffer: when you'll be telling your grandchildren about this time of your life....what will you tell them?

Mrs. Shaffer: will your decision be something you're proud of?

Mrs. Shaffer: and when you've answered these questions.....you'll have an answer for yourself, I think :)

In_a_Pickle: thats the thing - ur asking about indefinate future while the wedding is next Monday and i've learned about that twist litterly hours ago

Mrs. Shaffer: yes...that's what I'm saying.

Mrs. Shaffer: you're at a moment in time when you have to make a decision

Mrs. Shaffer: and this decision is something that's not just simply for this one moment.. it's for the future

Mrs. Shaffer: I'm afraid i can't really offer any more advice... but let me tell you one personal story...

Mrs. Shaffer: my father escaped communism in Russia, and then settled in Canada where he was a teacher, and did business on the side in order to pay the rent and food bills....

Mrs. Shaffer: But, I have to tell you, he wasn't the best businessman, and we never had any money...his businesses were never successful...and when he died, suddenly, in a car accident...we were left with lots and lots of debts

Mrs. Shaffer: my mother was left with these debts..and with a family of young children to support

Mrs. Shaffer: although he never made it in business....he never, ever compromised his religious or moral principles

Mrs. Shaffer: when his various business associates found out (on the news the next morning) about his death....one after the other they called or wrote to my mother expressing their sympathy

Mrs. Shaffer: and then cancelling, completely, whatever debt was owned!

Mrs. Shaffer: imagine that!

Mrs. Shaffer: so... the legacy we were left with wasn't an inheritence of money

Mrs. Shaffer: but a moral standing and determination that does, indeed, go farther than money

In_a_Pickle: he made sure u have jewish edu?

Mrs. Shaffer: he did... and kosher food... and we never felt underprivileged

In_a_Pickle: i do same for my children

Mrs. Shaffer: ok, then give them also the legacy of a moral giant :)

Mrs. Shaffer: in any event, perhaps you need to discuss this with a rabbi, to get a Halachic ruling from a rabbi who hears the entire story..and the possible ramifications of your decision...

In_a_Pickle: my rabbi said that i dont need his advice in that case

Mrs. Shaffer: you're not asking for advice...you're asking for a psak din...a legal ruling

In_a_Pickle: k

Mrs. Shaffer: I'm afraid I have to end this converstaion now....I wish I could give you easy answers :)

Mrs. Shaffer: I'm sure you'll do the right thing, and I wish you all the best :)

In_a_Pickle: alrighty than Mrs. Shaffer - we'll wish u a Gooten Shabbos