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(continued)
try2Bgood: What is the Jewish view of evil
Rabbi Eliezer G: When G-d created the world he emitted spiritual energies; we call them forces
Rabbi Eliezer G: some of these forces were assigned by G-d to the domain of goodness, and other forces were assigned to evil
Rabbi Eliezer G: this is to say that there is a spiritual force that originates with G-d that entices man to evil
Rabbi Eliezer G: the force itself is performing its duty, but the evil that it advocates is forbidden to us
Rabbi Eliezer G: now you may ask, if its forbidden, why does G-d send these forces to entice us?
Rabbi Eliezer G: because he wants us to have the opportunity to say no
Rabbi Eliezer G: without such opportunites - without the option to do evil - free choice is meaningless
Rabbi Eliezer G: when we have the opportunity to do evil, but instead opt to do good, then we have achieved something and deserve a reward
try2Bgood: so essentially evil only exists in a potential form, and man creates ACTUAL evil?
Rabbi Eliezer G: that is one of saying it, but I am not sure if you mean it the way I do
try2Bgood: in other words G-d only creates an inclination for evil. Actual evil is created by man
try2Bgood: for example, the concept of murder is implanted in Hitler by G-d, but Hitler makes himself a murderer
Rabbi Eliezer G: I like the way you put it about Hitler
Rabbi Eliezer G: it is important to note that G-d did not only create the inclination and temptation for evil
Rabbi Eliezer G: he also created evil
try2Bgood: how so?
Rabbi Eliezer G: if it had not been created by G-d man could not have made it
Rabbi Eliezer G: that it is possible to kill another human, that it is possible to rape another, that it is possible to blaspheme
Rabbi Eliezer G: the possibility was also created by G-d
Rabbi Eliezer G: I know it is not somethign we thnk about much
Rabbi Eliezer G: we take these possibilities - our choices - for granted, but they were created
Rabbi Eliezer G: for example it is not possible for us fly - even if we wanted to
Rabbi Eliezer G: but it is possible for planes to fly
Rabbi Eliezer G: when G-d created the laws of nature he also created the laws of flight
Rabbi Eliezer G: when Orville and Wilbur Wright discovered these laws of nature they had discovered somethign G-d had created many years earlier
try2Bgood: very interesting
try2Bgood: and what about things like hunger, earthquakes, children dying as a result of drunk drivers?
Rabbi Eliezer G: what about natural disasters?
try2Bgood: are those evil? does G-d create those?
Rabbi Eliezer G: lets separate drunk drivers which is a choice of man (no different from Hitler's choice to kill), and earthquakes which is a natural phenomenon
try2Bgood: fair enough
Rabbi Eliezer G: the earthquake is orchestrated by G-d
Rabbi Eliezer G: and here is the clincher: we believe two contrary things
Rabbi Eliezer G: A - everything comes from G-d - nothing happens on its own
Rabbi Eliezer G: B - nothing that comes from G-d is evil
Rabbi Eliezer G: if A and B are true, it leads to the next conclusion:
Rabbi Eliezer G: astounding conclusion
Rabbi Eliezer G: we believe that if a natural occurance destroys a city of innocent people it cannot be evil
Rabbi Eliezer G: because nothing that comes from G-d is evil
Rabbi Eliezer G: at the same time we know that there is nothing nice about such a disaster
try2Bgood: That sounds so euphoric in a chat with a rabbi, but it is hard to accept in the real world
try2Bgood: how can an earthquake that kills 100,000 people not be evil
Rabbi Eliezer G: I know, and this is the challenge of faith:
Rabbi Eliezer G: to feel genuine empathy and horror at the disaster, and even to pray to G-d as Moses did and complain bitterly about our fate
Rabbi Eliezer G: and at the same time to believe that nothing is evil
Rabbi Eliezer G: so how to reconclie these two notions?
Rabbi Eliezer G: let me tell you
Rabbi Eliezer G: this is how I reconclile them :-)
try2Bgood: ok, i'm all ears
Rabbi Eliezer G: that they are not evil is a matter of absolute faith
Rabbi Eliezer G: only G-d can know what makes a disaster good, if we ever tried to rationalize it we would be blasphemous on two counts:
Rabbi Eliezer G: A, we cannot possibly understand G-d so our own theories are bound to be wrong
Rabbi Eliezer G: B, because this concept transcends our understanding it follows that within human reason there actually is no justification for what happened
Rabbi Eliezer G: thus it follows that we must feel empahty and horror on our level even as we believe that on G-d's level it all makes sense
Rabbi Eliezer G: we have to talk to G-d as things are on our level - as we see them
Rabbi Eliezer G: so we are meant to pray and even bitterly complain for our lot and for the sufferings of others
Rabbi Eliezer G: just the same we cannot allow this natural and required empathy and horror to impact our pure, unadulterated and absolute faith that G-d knows what is right
try2Bgood: So are you saying that from a human perspective this is a tragedy, and we need to react on a human level?
try2Bgood: but at the same time we need to know that there is a level of reality that is beyond the human level, and at that point it is actually good?
Rabbi Eliezer G: correct
try2Bgood: so what's the point of that latter knowledge? If the bottom line is that we see it, and react to it, as tragedy, who cares if we believe or don't belive that on some plain it is actually good?
Rabbi Eliezer G: our faith is what makes us more than human
Rabbi Eliezer G: it makes us G-dly, it connects us to G-d, and allows us to function even without understanding on a higher level
Rabbi Eliezer G: which is of course the purpose of life: to bring heaven down to earth
try2Bgood: That is true, but does it help us react to tragedy or evil specifically?
try2Bgood: Is there a benefit or purpose in believing that a disaster is actually good on some level?
Rabbi Eliezer G: yes - there is
Rabbi Eliezer G: it saves our sanity for one
Rabbi Eliezer G: it is of immense comfort to us when we personaly suffer
Rabbi Eliezer G: we recognize that in suffering there is a closeness to G-d like in no other area of life
Rabbi Eliezer G: and it inspires us to increase our Torah and Mitzvot and through that our connection with G-d
Rabbi Eliezer G: in this way we transform our suffering into a channel of holiness
try2Bgood: how so? How is there is a closeness to G-d?
Rabbi Eliezer G: G-d has involved himself in my life for the purpose of doing something so good that it warrants this incredible suffering
try2Bgood: why would good warrant suffering?
Rabbi Eliezer G: :-) you are asking me to explain the unexplainable
Rabbi Eliezer G: nu, if we knew that we would be G-d, right?
try2Bgood: I am just asking what leads you to the conclusion that behind suffering is a "closer" form of "good"
try2Bgood: maybe there is good behind suffering, but we suffer in the process because it is a more distant or lesser form of good?
try2Bgood: so i see why i would believe that on some level the suffering is actually good - i just didn't understand why the suffering would imply an extra sense of closeness
Rabbi Eliezer G: the reason behind suffering is a good that is so great as to transcend our human reason - Another way of saying the same thing is that the good that is brought aobut by suffering is so great as to trascend human understanding
Rabbi Eliezer G: a lesser good is sensed by us as good because it is small enough to fit into our limited sensors - but the transcendant good is too large for our brain and mind to understand
Rabbi Eliezer G: it is thus a higher good, a closer presence of G-d
Rabbi Eliezer G: unfortunately I must end this conversation at this time because the chatroom has filled up and there are many questions I have to respond to
Rabbi Eliezer G: I wish we could keep going with this, it is a very ineresting conversation
Rabbi Eliezer G: you can read Tanya chapter 26 for more insight
try2Bgood: Chapter 26 explains why suffering is a higher form of good?
Rabbi Eliezer G: yes, chapter 26 discusses suffering in this context
try2Bgood: ok, great, i will ask my Chabad Rabbi if he can study that with me
Rabbi Eliezer G: that is an excellent idea
try2Bgood: so back to the main issue of natural disasters...
try2Bgood: I think I am starting to get it:
try2Bgood: If I only viewed natural disasters as good, I would become apathetic to them. And if I only viewed them as disasters I would fall into eternal despair. But if I see them as a tragedy, on the one hand, I do all in my means to help; and because I have faith that ultimately it is good, I remain strong and willing to move on.
Rabbi Eliezer G: What you just wrote is a very good summary of what we discussed
try2Bgood: ok, i am sorry for taking up so much of your time... thanks a lot rabbi, and good luck
Rabbi Eliezer G: your welcome and thank you for the chat
Rabbi Eliezer G: sorry we could not continue it
try2Bgood: oh no, thank YOU!
try2Bgood: shalom
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